An effort to genetically create a Roundup-tolerant grass seed stalls because of market, scientific and regulatory dilemmas
The following discussion thread took place between
Thomas & Jonathan over the issue of genetically modified grass, and
Jonathan: Please read the article on genetically modified grass.
Thomas: I've heard about
genetically modified food products, not grass. It’s a very scary thought to think
that it could spread to other fields, and create a widespread mutation of
plants. The result could be
problems that we do not expect in the future. It's great that people
are standing up and saying no. Big industry has no long term
conscience unless they are led by men of God who are willing to say no to
efforts that will harm His creation. Sadly the champions are
Thomas: Yes, you can
judge a man by his actions, but one single action does not determine the
whole man. No man is
monolithic in his philosophy.
To the extent that he follows the ways of God, he is good and
Godly, to the extent that he follows and bends to the pressures of the
world, he is imperfect. In George W. Bush we see a man who is flawed
in his Godliness, just as we are. It is not that he is an unGodly
man, but rather that he is a less than perfectly Godly, less than totally
mature, and less than totally strong. We are always disappointed and
feel betrayed when we realize that our leaders are not perfect, it has
been true always, and will probably always be so. So instead, we judge people by the
priorities we hold, and how they stand on the issues of Godliness we
consider most dear. Our votes, our patterns of judgment of the
societal good reflect our own sense of Godliness and our sense of priority
in directing the movement of the public mind.
Thomas: Passing a Constitutional Amendment to protect marriage is an excellent stand for righteousness. Supporting the propagation of genetically modified plants is short sighted and a potentially disastrous intervention into the ecosystem. I don’t know what his motivation or reasoning was for supporting this GM grass seed. My impression of the political process is that people get focused on issues that are important to them simply go along with their advisors on the rest. If spreading grass with genes that are resistant to roundup is one of his important issues, I would call that a misdirected passion. My bet is that he has been given advice by his advisors, who were in turn sold by the lobbyists, and that's the way it happens in a capitalistic-representative democracy. That is how the system is perverted and distorted by money. When people rule in favor of policies because of money, then justice suffers and the people suffer.
Jonathan: It would be
more than a "misdirected passion". It would be evil.
and lots of oil and a new civil war
modified food technology was developed long before GW Bush came to office,
the big promotion came in the 1990's when President Clinton was in
power. The problem is not
Bush, the problem is a nation without a proper level of knowledge, and a
conscience that has been blunted by greed and Godless self-indulgence. We
can choose to blame the one in power, and they do have some influence, but
the rot goes much deeper. The society which lives out of an
unthinking obedience to profit and short term gain that will reap the
whirlwind. Of the two candidates, I believe that George Bush is far
more conscious of Godly principles than Kerry. I would be happier if President
Bush were to openly declare his belief that we should declare ourselves
overtly to be a Christian
Nation (as was done by Congressional Committees in the 1860’s, and the
Supreme Court in 1892). Our
nation has been hijacked by the ACLU and the unthinking masses that
follow their passions and “intellectual” leaders that hate
God. We will suffer to the
degree that God and His ways are not honored.
Those who do not wish to deal with the consequences of imposing righteousness will find that they will be eventually overwhelmed with the weeds, viruses, mold, and vermin of life. There are consequences to appeasement and delay. The alternative to passive acceptance is a bold stand for Truth, goodness, and Godliness. Given the state of corruption of the world, the masses of people and the leadership have little resonance with Godly principle, and people who wish to simply pass laws that clearly require behavior that meets Godly standards. For leaders seeking to influence the state of society, compromise ends up being the way of life they must follow rather than standing for the perfect principle. I would like to believe that such a bold stand for Truth and overt stand for right would be rewarded with leadership, but in general it does not. Usually the politician seeking to be elected, or reach a leadership position, must sell out, or at least present himself in a low profile manner through his career to reach the top. Occasionally the man of real principle reaches the top, but it is seldom, possibly because there are few who can resist the temptation to sell out or appear acceptable.
Thomas: I guess it's
clear who to vote for using that standard.
We all sift through the various pieces of data to
parallax on that which we believe is the best possible solution for any
given set of opportunities. Priorities, values, history, passion and
data all go into making a decision. It's different for
everyone. Hopefully we all are actually committed to goodness.
To the extent we are actually going in the direction of Truth, we get
goodness eventually. To the extent that we are deceived, we get what
a manifestation of the truth and the underlying character, even though we
didn't realize what we were asking for.
Thomas: You are right, that is a hard vision to
develop. Nevertheless, an important sight to practice
Thomas: The Holy Spirit
gives us insight into the heart of another. Not that we judge another person
to hell for what we see, that is God's job, but we must judge another man
for the spirit that we see in him. We all do it. It is just a
matter of which spirit we use to listen and inform our judgment.
Actually, the distinctions in the realm of evil are
manifold and of great interest. Evil can arise as a result of
ignorance, but it still furthers the mission of evil. The challenge
is to take the evil once it has arisen and turn its direction into an
ultimate good. Usually such a process is done by recognizing how to
resist, barricade, or prevent such a process from perpetuating in other
circumstances, and realizing that this is God's world, and His will is
sovereign, and all it is His will to work all things to the good, even
though all things are not good. It would be a very different world
in which all things were good.
Jonathan: There is a documentary on the war of 1812 tonight on the History Channel.
Thomas: Sounds like a good documentary. From the way it all played out, it looks like we had enough righteousness as a country in 1812 to have God's blessing as a country continue, even though we were a backward 3rd world country of hooligans etc. To assume that we must be totally righteous to be blessed is simplistic. I think God blesses a country that has the willingness to purge itself of the evil within. I think the foundation of our Country was so strongly seeded with the principles of Christianity that we were blessed with His grace far beyond what we had a right to expect given the lack of real perfection in Godliness lived out by many/most of the people. I think we are God's best plan and hope for the world, but our imperfection is still great. To the extent that there are factions in the leadership that are trying to bring us into a Godless New World Order, a globalistic submission to a central World Government, this is a serious problem. To the extent that there are those in leadership who fall prey to the temptation of being manipulated by trading votes and money to giving special favor or making policy that gives advantage to Big Industry, we have sacrificed goodness and morality for a bowl of soup today and we will lose our inheritance, the brilliant potential that we could have if we lived in that state of absolute perfect harmony with nature, each other, with those who are unrighteous, and the future. Such knowledge requires deep insight, an ability to see the end from the beginning in many metaphors of life and apply them to the multivariate system of public policy that affects the entirety of the human experience of relationship, work, defense, etc. Our problem is that we do not have men who have perfected themselves in God's will who are our leaders. We have men who are mortal, and are flawed. The best we can do is hope that our leaders are at least trying to live to a standard of perfect Godliness. A man who denies God, who tries to use the standards of the public good which are false (e.g. abortion out of choice, homosexual marriage out of tolerance, equality in all things out of a sense of fairness) will contribute to the degradation of the public sphere on a level so deep that financial corruption, support of Industrial monopoly, and poor ecological decisions is a small error compared to turning the face of God against the entire nation. Greed is one thing, lust for power is one thing, but rebellion against the Almighty is an entirely different thing.
To sanction homosexual marriage as a nation is a symbolic gesture that reflects the depravity of the human soul on a level that can only be judged as a rebellion against God. On its surface, homosexual marriage is a victimless crime. There is only the degradation of the participants before the throne of God, and they will be judged according to His standards and righteousness. But, if in fact such symbols and actions are Truly Wrong, and if the Nation endorses such Wrong as Right, then the nation has taken a posture against God in a way which can only be interpreted as extreme ignorance of the natural order, or choosing to rebel against God. The rebel will get a great deal more punishment, and needs more punishment to turn him around, than the ignorant oaf who stumbled into error.
Jonathan: You can only
judge by the results of a man's actions:
In one year:
Thomas: You know the old
phrase, figures don't lie, but liars figure. In other words, results framed in
one way appear to be convincing of a particular perspective. When
framed in another way, the perspective is different. You have made
your perspective clear. You have buttressed your position with
figures that appear to conclusively validate your position, and you have
applied a philosophy of life (that results tell it all), to validate that
Jonathan: WMD, 9/11,
etc. were excuses to go to war to steal land, water, cheap labor, oil,
gas, gold, etc. The threat of
Militant Islam is an excuse. The
Thomas: No, I don't want to start a Christian war. War is a blunt instrument, it doesn’t change the hearts. Even after defeat the real work of winning the hearts and minds of the conquered must be engaged. But, sometimes was is necessary. A stiff necked and rebellious people who will attack you surreptitiously cannot be trusted to be a good neighbor and simply stay on their side of the fence. If war is necessary, then engage it fully, to win. After a crushing defeat it may be easier to mold the minds of a demoralized and defeated people.
The best way to wage war is without firing a
shot. As soldiers for the
army of God, our banner is the Truth of God’s goodness and His way. As Christians seeking to protect
our country and advance the
The Militant Islam/WMD/911 threat may have been
something that was used as an excuse to take oil, gold, labor, land by our
leaders... but regardless of the accusations of low motive or conspiracy,
I believe the threat of Militant Islam is real and must be
confronted. The motivation for the War in
This is not a war with an identifiable enemy to
shoot and kill. We are
engaged in a long term battle that is living in the center of each
person’s soul. Everyone is a
potential target, for conversion or elimination. Until we have a moral center that
allows us to confront the fact that there is another people who want to
dominate us, we will be at risk of overlooking that threat. The national consciousness now
pays little attention to the subtle force seeping into our national psyche
from this ancient threat. Our
media has been neutralized by their worship of the false gods of
non-discrimination, non-profiling, tolerance, and Separation of Church and
State. The media is the watchman on the wall for the culture, but as
a vast block of conscience and consciousness, they have not sounded the
alarm against Militant Islam. The politically correct worship of
non-discrimination above all other principles has muted their voice. It is through this mechanism
of gagging the watchman that they will install the Trojan horse of
training camps for terror in the guise of houses of worship. In this
threat we will be challenged in ways we have never been challenged.
I hope we wake up before this threat overtakes us. We probably
Jonathan: What did you mean by that?
As per your NYT article, the Kerry supporters are
"paragraph" people who think in terms of poetic license, not "spreadsheet"
people that support President Bush who think in terms of the balance of
equations and law.
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